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kossio95

Engine will not turn over with spark plugs on

kossio95
15 years ago

The engine on my riding lawn mower will not turn over without the sparks plugs removed. I opened both cylinder heads (broke one screw). The valves seem to be functional. I also removed the carburetor. When i jump start it I use a battery charge which can deliver 75 A for jump starting. And i connect it directly to the starter. I turns over pretty well without the spark plugs but when I but them in it turns over once, slowly then stops. It does this again and again. I haven't started the mower for about 3 to 4 years.

Engine: 18 HP Twin Cylinder Briggs and Straton

Mower: Signature 2000 Elite

Thanks

Comments (27)

  • gator_rider2
    15 years ago

    I would not trust that charger have all ampere to start tractor 75 amp just to help weak battery not replace graveyard dead battery.

  • tomplum
    15 years ago

    I assume from what this is on this is an opposed twin engine. #s are a good idea. Take a good battery that isn't in the tractor and jump to the starter direct. + battery to starter lug - battery to a good safe ground spot on the engine- it will spark. If the heads aren't all carboned up, it should crank. If not,it is likely the starter itself has issues. That is if the opposed twin guess was right...

  • kossio95
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Model: 422707 Type: 151001 Code: 92061212

  • mownie
    15 years ago

    Referring back to what tomplum mentioned.....what do the tops of the pistons and combustion chamber surfaces of the head look like? Is there a lot of carbon and crud build-up? These "flat head" engines can benefit from a good cleaning and removal of these deposits. If the accumulation of deposits is great enough, it increases the compression pressures and that will require a "strong" battery and starter to spin the engine. Worst cases of this can actually result in the piston making "physical contact" with the head (because the growth of deposits on each component). Have you tried "jumping" or boosting with a good battery (car or truck)? Unless you have a very good commercial duty battery charger (with a higher "boost start" rate than 75 amp) you are probably not going to get enough AMPS to crank the engine.

  • kossio95
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    The tops of the pistons and the combustion chamber surfaces look pretty clean. I may try to clean them but I don't know how.

  • mownie
    15 years ago

    The combustion chamber of the head can be cleaned using a wire cup brush in a drill. Keep the brush confined to the areas away from the gasket surfaces. The tops of the pistons can be cleaned the same way but you should position the piston to the top of cylinder before cleaning. You can also use spray carb cleaner to soften the deposits (works best on oily deposits). Refrain from doing any "scraping" with hard steel tools (scrapers, screwdrivers, etc.) because any gouges in the piston or head can lead to cracking under certain conditions. Gasket surfaces are best cleaned using carb cleaner and a hand held "scotch brite" pad or fine emery cloth. Be sure to clean the gap between the piston and the cylinder with spray carb cleaner after you clean the top of the piston. It still seems to me that the actual problem you are having is electrical system related. Look at all the cables and cable end terminals (HOT and GROUND) to make certain you don't just have a bad cable. Cables can sometimes break where the cable terminals are crimped in place. The cables can fail gradually as the wire strands or fibers break one at a time from movement or vibration. When this happens, there could be a point reached where the failing cable simply does not have the ampacity to carry enough current to satisfy thr requirements of the starter and you might see the "stalling" or "limping" starter you have now.

  • kossio95
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    The problem can be from the cables because I don't have a battery installed and I put the jumper cables directly on the starter. Also can the engine not turning over problem be caused by improperly adjusted valves. And of it can how do I properly adjust them. One last thing I opened the starter and the four brushes pushed by springs flew out. I haven't lost them because they are connected by wires but the springs always push them out so i can't put the bottom back on the starter. Any ideas.
    Thanks

  • kossio95
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    "The problem can be from the cables"
    Sorry, misspelled can. I meant "The problem CAN'T be from the cables"
    Thanks

  • tomplum
    15 years ago

    The trend seems to be that the combustion chambers don't get carboned up too bad on these unless you have an oil burner. Personally, I have a small rounded metal scraper that I can safely use to de-carbonize the piston w/o marring the aluminum rather a wire brush. Hardwood works well too. I doubt you have valve adjustment issues with this engine, that is reserved for the meticulous engineering of the Briggs OHV engines. It doesn't hurt to check the lash .005 Intake .008 exhaust. New gaskets all around. If you used good jumper cables from a good battery as instructed above, you then it is relatively certain that you have a bad starter. These op twins love 'em. Maybe more certain now that the end cap won't go back on...

  • mownie
    15 years ago

    "I opened the starter and the four brushes pushed by springs flew out. I haven't lost them because they are connected by wires but the springs always push them out so i can't put the bottom back on the starter. Any ideas." Yes, a couple.
    You can try "wrapping" a small plastic zip-tie around each brush holder to keep the brushes "caged" until you get them positioned back onto the commutator. You can also inspect each brush holder "slot" to see if the OEM provided 2 holes for inserting a "brush assembly pin". If the holes are there, they will be situated near the edge of the brush holder. If present, you can use half a toothpick in each holder to retain the brushes during assembly. DON'T FORGET to remove toothpicks or zip ties after you get the brushes on the commutator.

  • kossio95
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I jumped the mower directly to the starter (got the bottom back on, thanks mownie) from my dad's car and I got it running.
    Thanks to everyone

  • kossio95
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Does any one know the belts (drive, blade) for thins mower.
    Thanks

  • tomplum
    15 years ago

    It depends on the exact model. Common 42# deck belt 954-0371a
    Common shift on the go traction belts were 954-0370 rear and 954-0280 front. (some of the 954's maybe 794's) Use the model # from below the seat in the link below. If it isn't there describe the drive and the deck size / post a pic. Glad to here Mownie got you going.

    Here is a link that might be useful: MTD parts diagrams

  • kossio95
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    OK. I got the lawn mower running but now when I put the throttle to maximum, tons of white smoke starts coming out of the exhaust.

  • mownie
    15 years ago

    Oh......Boy! Check that your oil level isn't way over full.........and smells like gasoline. You might have carb problems too. Does this tractor have a fuel tank mounted higher than the carb?

  • kossio95
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    I removed the muffler and cleaned it with gasoline. I put it back on one there was no smoke. Some oil must have gotten into it when i put WD-40 on the bolts the first time I removed it.
    Thanks

  • Benjamin Curry
    7 years ago

    My mower will not turn over unless I take the sparkplug completly out!!! If I put the plug in it only does 1/2 revolution please help me fix this issue!!!!!! It's getting fuel and the sparkplug does get fire to it!!!

  • Benjamin Curry
    7 years ago

    But won't complete revolution with plug in

  • krnuttle
    7 years ago

    While you have the tractor running, I would get a new battery. You can buy a battery at Walmart/Kmart/auto stores for about $30. I believe they are about 225 cold amps. I have had several from these sources at this price and they have got my JD LT-155 for over four years.

  • M Call
    7 years ago

    No one even mentioned the word compression and it makes me wonder about you people

    If the engine turns over without a plug in, it's because there is little resistance to turning over in a well oiled engine. With the plugs in the pistons now must generate compression of the air fuel mixture and this takes much more force. The power supply may be adequate to turn the engine over without plugs, but it may not be adequate to turn the engine over with plugs in. MAKE SURE you jump start CORRECTLY, with very good contact on terminals(you must have the right voltage which takes any contact, but right amperage as well which takes sufficient contact to pass that much currently in a given time which is why battery terminals are the size they are and not tiny wire connections)

    The engine should easily enough turn over with a breaker bar and socket on the crank pully if there is an easy way to verify this(only rotate it forward) if it takes a lot of resistance the engine is gummed up or starved for oil(or sludged) and good luck at this point.

  • Benjamin Curry
    7 years ago

    Ok that was very helpful!! I even tried jump starting it with my boat battery it still won't turn over with plug in!!! I know the plug is good b/c I got my wife to hold it!! Haha lol I'm sledping on the couch now! Lol!! Someone else said my valves need adjusting??????

  • Fred Aikens
    7 years ago

    Okay I have a question I have a gt5000 Craftsman what's a 24 horse twin valve try to start it with spark plugs in and it hard turns, with the plugs out it turns easy with but there is a clunking sound. It has brand new starter tried directly to starter and it still does the same thing any suggestions


  • Tammy Bednarzyk
    7 years ago

    Fred, I had same problem, with 20 hp Craftsman. Replaced battery, solenoid, starter, spark plug and thinking about magneto, when I saw two you tube videos:. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5CoJXHBNTc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyNMgTMrP0w, and a yahoo answers comment :https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100712090724AABuAsB.


    I tried amnually turning my flywheel as shown, and then tried starting with my hand over the air intake, as shown on the second you tube , and voila- started right up. was able to recreate about ten times and every time it worked. Had to turn the flywheel until I could hear the compression be released. Not sure what a compression release cam is, but but that's where I'm going now.

    Very frustrating, but I believe I can start the mower now, but not yet "fixed"

  • Leonard Whitehurst
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    my riding mower is running erratic what might be the problem? It cuts good for a little while then shuts off.

  • HU-471632267
    2 years ago

    I have A craftsmen20 hp single wont start, won't crank over with plug in. I removed head, found that piston and valves were all junked up, I cleaned them up put it back together adjusted valves

    and still will not crank what could be the trouble? I'll try a bigger battery but that can't be the trouble I also took a battery out of another tractor and that didn't work. I'm open what else?

    Rich. K.

  • M. Ponce. Sr
    last month

    Gap the valves correctly. Set the timing and valves on TDC. New oil. If starter spins with plug off it's not starter, not piston, not flywheel, fyi: Valves only get stuck on open not closed. Anything over 100psi is good 125psi preference. Do not get you 110cc to 150psi that's too much pressure. Gap it to .003 and .005 to get 125 psi. Check you OIL! Check the battery 5lbs or 7lbs should be 5amps or higher , the higher the amp the better ! 8amp 7lbs worked for me . It was a headache but after two weeks on off troubleshooting I got it. Note I attempted directly jump it with 12 volt car battery and it wouldn't go past one revolution. Once I gapped the valves reset the timing and clean oil it fired right up. ✅️ good luck !

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