I can't speak for your market, but in our market, you can get concept plans produced and a pretty accurate budget estimate from a remodeler for a couple thousand dollars.

That would make a lot more sense. I wonder if these designers and architects are over selling me on what I need.

Most independent architects want to sell you a fully-detailed, biddable set of construction documents. Those can run 10% to 12% of total remodel project cost in our market. If you want budget pricing, you only need a concept plan from which a fairly accurate budget estimate can be produced. If the budget estimate is in line with your intended investment, the architect can then continue to develop the concept plans into a more detailed set of plans for permit and construction purposes.

OK, good to know. I hope I can get them to agree to a "concept plan". I wonder what specific documents I can tell them I need.

The more detailed the drawing the more accurate the bid can be.

Also the more "detailed" I suspect the cost goes up ?

How "detailed" do you recommend Mark ?

Again my dilemma is getting a reasonable enough details to get an accurate bid but not overspending in case the project turns out to not be feasible financially.

There's a keen difference between a contractor's budget estimate of construction costs and a firm "bid" on a project. A budget estimate is a good faith estimate based on basic plans--and possibly no specifications. By contrast, a bid would be a firm price commitment from a contractor based on a fully-detailed set of plans and specifications.

You shouldn't need to invest in a fully-detailed set of plans and specifications to get a reasonably accurate budget estimate of construction costs.

What drawings do you need for permits? Call the Building Department and find out. That's what contractors will expect. Do you have a design yet? Its possible modular housing can overcome the budget challenge. You notice you'll need to put in effort.

Contractors don't need a fully-detailed set of plans suitable for a building permit application in order to provide budget pricing for any construction project. Indeed, our company's process is to produce preliminary construction cost estimates based on concept plans and firm pricing once those plans are sufficiently detailed to tie down the contract scope of work and to obtain a building permit.

I have no design yet. I have looked into modular housing as it sounds interesting. It seems everyone pushing for the ADU in that modular arena. One place told me the Modular as the main house will take as long as stick built and the price was close to stick built (a little less).

However many places have quoted prices nearing stick built. If I could get that good price and time to install quicker than stick built it would be really nice. When the price is close and the time is the same, I lean towards stick built.

Somehow, what you want to have built is communicate to the builder is done, you should be able to get a fairly accurate cost of what it will take to build what you want to build. There is a difference between a "bid" and an "estimate" and a "guess". Ideally a set of construction documents will include detailed drawings that shows walls, windows, doors, cabinetry, details, plumbing fixtures, lights, switches, outlets, details, structure, roof configuration, details, material locations, material identification, material requirements, details, show the materials go together, site work, porta-potty, tree and plant identification. site grading, and more to show exactly what you are going to get. It is my experience that few people want to pay for all that. Often a set of construction drawings consisting of a site plan, foundation plan, floor plan of each floor, four exterior elevations, building section. electrical plan of each floor, and interior elevations along with a room finish schedule is sufficient in most instances, BUT there is still room for interpretation. It can help to have the architect perform Construction Observation or Construction Supervision services to make sure the construction is following the construction documents and answer any questions that arise.

Somehow, what you want to have built is communicate to the builder is done, you should be able to get a fairly accurate cost of what it will take to build what you want to build.

Most builders want drawings to give accurate cost. I guess I need to ask them more of how detailed the drawings need to be for them and hope I don't have to spend too much as its a gamble. I also have another options I want to analyze based on what it would cost. I certainly can't keep paying the price of a full set of drawings/plans to get prices.

Most architects, as far as I know, work generally in three phases: Schematic Design, Design Development, and Construction Drawings. Each phase can, and should, be accompanied with a cost estimate prepared by the architect or a builder.

Does the cost estimate give one number or a range ?

Is Schematic the first phase ? If so maybe this is enough for the builders.

I think you have two different potential paths. You have a dwelling. You can invest some time to measure and draw the floorplan of what's there. Include windows, doors, and all measurements including wall thickness provisions. You can post it with questions relating to what changes you'd like to accomplish. Separate post in a LARGE readable size. If that doesn't work out, you can get the setback limitations for the land and start fresh.

Thanks Dan, however you have me confused as to what you are saying ? I am not necessarily looking to remodel the old house, although that is ok too to consider. I would have to bring the house down to the studs, add a foundation and add another room as its a 1br, 944 sq feet. I would need to totally gut everything. Knob and tube wiring, galvanized plumbing, plaster walls that crack, post and pier block foundation. A relic from the past.

My other option I was alluding to was to go with max density allowed on the lot(zoned multifamily) and see what that costs. More risk, I'd need a loan so I would want good cash flow. Might be the "home run" if it all worked out.

Hi, Steve,

I'll answer your questions in the reverse order because one follows the other better.

"Is Schematic the first phase ? If so maybe this is enough for the builders." Concept plans and schematics would be synonymous in our market. They contain limited information. To be sure, more effort is required to use concept plans to estimate material quantities and labor required, but it can be done. Just recognize the accuracy of any estimate will be limited based on the quality of the information and the builder's level of effort invested. Compensating the builder or remodeler for their time is appropriate under any market conditions, but obligatory when their services are in high demand.

"Does the cost estimate give one number or a range?" Any estimate, by definition, is an approximation. It could be stated as a single number with a +/- or a range. It's important to share as much information as you can with a builder or remodeler to supplement that in a concept plan. For example, if you want an addition with particular components (e.g., make/models of windows, doors, fireplace, appliances, etc.) and materials (e.g., copper standing seam roof.) If you're not specific, the cost estimate will be based on the builder's defaults which may be far removed from what you have in mind.

Most builders want drawings to give accurate cost.

Yes as it is impossible to give pricing without solid specs and drawings.

" Does the cost estimate give one number or a range ?"

The more accurate the drawings and specs the tighter the range can be for the pricing.

They cannot give you a firm price without know exactly what it needed to complete the project.

At the risk of side tracking the discussion, most builders or remodelers want to gauge a client's commitment to a potential project before investing any effort of their own. Spending money on plans as the basis for a budget estimate communicates that you're not a "tire kicker."

IMO an estimate is exactly what it says , a guess and many things can change from estimate to actual price.You are building home so do what needs to be done to stay within the budget you. I have never had to pay that kind of money for a set of drawings to get a bid.But I also do not live in wacky Ca. I do live in a pretty expensive area for building and $400 / sq ft will get a pretty basic house. You do not share the size you want to build so no one here can even make a guess just like contractors. IMO prefab is the way to go set pricing and you get the foundation and services where they need to be and those prices are pretty easy to get right.

You may be able to equate Schematic Design (first phase) will get you a guess (one number or a range), Design Development will get you an estimate (one number or a range), and Construction Drawings will get you a bid (a number).

@Patricia Colwell Consulting,

Sorry to disagree, Patricia, but an "estimate" based on concept plans is different from a "bid" and far removed from a "guess" as has been noted by others above.

It has been my experience that the builder/remodeler selection process for many prospective clients is to show a couple of builder/remodelers a napkin sketch, ask for an "estimate" and select the builder/remodeler who provides the lowest guess. It doesn't typically end well.

Here's a modular design that can be used for multi. Comes completely furnished.

ZenniHome is transforming the $2T US housing market with robotic homes

Also, having a full set of plan does not guarantee that your final price won't be higher than the bid, specially if you sign a cost plus contract. Best way to come close to the bid price is to have a fixed price contract and pick every item up front, so you have no unknown allowances.

We built in 2021 with a cost plus contract and ended up 40% over the initial bid. We did some pricey custom things and labor/materials kept going up, so we expected the final number to be higher, but not that high!

Even a bid cannot be firm.

For example, our current build now may require shoring to meet the building inspector's demand for terracing, protection of trees and deeper foundations than expected--old garage had a full foundation.

Let alone a two week on-site delay for the architect to redraw plans as he mistakenly placed the home beyond the variances we were granted.

The more detailed the plans, the closer the guess. Even a signed cost plus contract with many things already costed is still a more sophisticated guess. If you have an estimate for windows st 84K, and the manufacturer has a price increase, and they are now 93K, you are going to pay the 93K. Plus the builder % on top of the 93K, not the 84K.

A small urban site has issues that raise cost for access and permitting studies, right off the bat. You might want to first fully explore those ”startup” type of costs, including architectural plans. Then realize that those are a small part of a build.

Plan for the high end of the range. Always Always Always. You will be lucky if it comes in under that number. Costs never come down. They only go ip. Today’s $1000 per square foot is tomorrow’s $1200 per square foot. If you absolutely cannot afford the high end of the range, then building is not for you.

To add to the dilemma, I really have options, lets say 3. Maybe most people have just one as we have unique zoning, and a really old house. Although with SB9 more people have these options too in CA. SB9 ( allows property owners within a single-family residential zone to build two units and/or to subdivide an existing lot into two parcels, for a total of four units. )

1. Renovate the old house and add space

2. Build a new house

3. Build many units

I am wondering how to get prices to analyze all these options without overly spending on drawings on all options ? Maybe there is a person that specializes in this type of scenario ? Maybe there is an architect/designer that can do concept drawing for all 3 options at an affordable price as maybe nothing makes sense.

Time for you to go shopping in your community. Find homes that have the different options that you are considering. Knock on doors, with a handful of Starbucks gift cards, and ask to talk about why the homeowners chose the options they did. No point in asking costs, since costs have risen 40% since 2019. The NOW costs WILL be at the high end, for all of those options you are considering.

You have to figure out what suits your needs, before you set up any appointments with anyone. If you are wanting "the cheapest" option, that is probably sell that house and buy a house where someone has already built an ADU or addition. If you want the best for your family's long term financial needs, it might involve living within the footprint that exists, rather than remodeling or expanding. If you want what you want, then you are going to have to pay the costs for that, and it will not be a budget project of any sort.

I really don't put much stake in what suits my needs. I look at what makes financial/business sense first since a home is your biggest investment typically. The numbers tell me the story not necessarily what suits my needs. Thats just me though everybody is different. Again there are options and the lot is unique with the zoning and location so I really need numbers.

If it is a good investment and it suits my needs then thats even better. Financial leverage versus risk/reward are things I look at.

During our design process we had the builder attend a few meetings with the designer. He successfully reigned in some of her “wow” items that would have cost us a ton and as a result they never made it onto any drawings. Working as a team from the start we were able to be much closer to our budget.

Yes, that seems to make a lot of sense!

You can not list ”property developer” on your resume without a lot more experience, and skill sets you do not possess. Successful property developers come from backgrounds such as general contractors, realtors, or architects. You have to have an idea of the local selling market, the market’s building costs, and the mechanics and economics of design choices.

Performing some of those services yourself, and being on the inside of the market is how money is made.

Since you possess none of those skills, you will have to pay consultation fees to those that do possess them. You are no longer making any profit on your economic venture into property development. You are LOSING money.

You are then counting on standard market appreciation as your money maker. Markets can go down. So, you had better have some type of personal motive beyond pure speculation into a market that you do not understand enough to actually risk speculation. You had better be doing a project like this because it benefits your family in some way.

Because this is not a money maker. You are guaranteed to LOSE money by the time you actually count up everything spent, when you do a project like this. You cannot flip a property unless you personally do some of the work yourself. And that is really what you are trying to do here, without usung that term.

Home are not investments. They are expenses for services. The service of shelter and a pleasant environment. Any math that considers inflation and market appreciation will show you losing money on a venture like this. You would earn a LOT more putting 1M in the stock market than you would by putting 1M into creating your own multi family compound.

If there isn't emotion or family life improvements prompting this, then forget doing it. The costs are not worth it.

I am a licensed Real Estate Agent, degree investments-finance and worked in financial planning and Real estate. So I like numbers.

Can we call a home an asset then ?

I can respect that you feel earning a lot more in the stock market than a multifamily property. With more reward comes more risk. Therefore you can also lose a LOT more too. You talk about letting emotion leading your decisions, that is the thing that usually hurts people the most with investing in the stock market.

Family life improvements are always part of decisions. However we have choices too. Which choice will bring the most family life improvements is a personal one. Financial is a factor to consider in that. That is my opinion, you can do what you want though.

Well...as others have already suggested your situation depends on what you really want, i.e., a rough guess, a quick estimate, a detailed estimate or a firm bid for construction. Spin the bottle and see what it points to!

Keep in mind that almost all projects have a range of hard and soft costs, that is costs for site improvements and the actual building, plus fees and expenses for things like hearings, permits, services and the like.

There's no free lunch; you get what you pay for. Good luck!

Well as long as what I "want" involves my finding estimates. This notion circulated around that estimates/bid/numbers etc. don't matter as its my desires only. Forget and numbers.

Lomo, why are you so rude ? I just came on here to share, why put people down ? You have your ideas about me from a post, I don't mind comparing backgrounds and what I have done but lets be fair.

Whats your background ?

Also I never said I did Real Estate sales, I do however have the license. I can tell you your assessment doesn't add up to the reality about Real Estate Agents. I know quite a few and they are not all tied in with a GC and design and they do just fine. I don't disagree with you though as you know more than me for sure.