Are you absolutely certain that your survey is correct? Did the surveyor find previously-set markers and agree or disagree with them? Have you verified the new survey with records of your municipality (for instance, does the new survey match their records of how long and wide the property is)?

I fail to see how utility markers would constitute anything official as to what’s yours and what’s not. In my area, anyway. I’m assuming you are in the U. S.

In the end, you’ll just have to tell the neighbor that you will be taking control of all your property.

Yes. He located the metal pins with a metal detector and then dug to expose them before placing stakes. He also had the original plot lines from when my neighborhood land was purchased in 1975 and divided.

He then checked distances off of my neighbors to confirm accuracy of the distances marked in the original map.

My neighbor also made an effort to fabricate a piece of metal he continually has told me over 2 years was the line. It was exactly 2 feet from the side of his shed.

The surveyor acknowledge surveys can vary typically inches. But regardless, his shed is still not the required 2 feet from the side property line and has been there 10 years.

He’s in the process of attempting to sell his home and I’m concerned about issues in the future over this — with his buyer or if I sell.

Sounds like you might need an attorney.

As for the utility markers, my utilities run underground. Every home in my neighborhood has utilities on their property. Why would my utilities run on a neighbors land? Makes no sense and when the survey was done it was revealed they do not.

However, every time I’m having dig work done and 811 comes out, he pulls the flags and says they were on his side.

My main concern is someone trying to claim my property where my gas lines, cables wires, and electrical lines run. If I ever need those repaired or replaced, I’d have to ask a neighbor?! I don’t think so!

I understand about buried utilities, but my comment was whether their placement (by utility workers) could be considered ”official” in a court of law. In this issue of property line dispute, you’ll most likely need official - from the surveyor, old survey markers, and records of your municipality.

I understand. My gas line is approx 3 feet inside the line after the survey I had done… with my other utilities.

My surveyor has the map showing the land divisions and distances, took pics of the old markers, and said the records are filed with the township and county.

I was going to talk to my neighbor personally as a first resort but feeling like I may need to just contact local zoning office and attorney.

The surveyor told me the wall of his shed is 6 inches onto my lot and the eave hangs over 2 feet. My neighbor is claiming an additional 2 feet with his own homemade marker, which the surveyor removed and disposed of.

The next part is… I want to plant a privacy hedge here but my neighbor put boxwoods and other shrubs on his rightfully owned land. The sun comes from my side so I’m aware a 15 foot arborvitae could kill anything in its shadow over time.

If the planting is on my side, establishing this line, can I face any litigation or lawsuit for this?

Gas lines, cable lines, electric lines and any type of utility are typically located in some type of easement. It doesn't matter what this or some future neighbor says. If they need replaced, they can be replaced. The electric box that serves several of the houses in my neighborhood sits on the edge of our property. That means the underground wiring for those neighbors is located under our property. It's irrelevant to the boundary issue. Don't bring it up with the neighbor.

The fact that he is trying to sell his home gives you an advantage. A property line and encroachment dispute can prevent or delay his sale. Should this ever go to court, he will likely need to disclose the case to potential buyers and may not be able to get the title insurance needed to sell. State laws vary on the disclosure of any current or pending litigation. Title insurance companies will not insure against litigation in this instance.

The first step is talk to him. Tell him exactly what you want him to do. Make a copy of any documentation you have and give it to him. Mention that you want this to be settled before he sells, and that you don't want it to interfere with his sale. (a subtle hint that it could do so.) If he fails to agree or act, the next step is to see a lawyer. Ask the lawyer to send him a letter. Final step would be to take him to court.

One additional thought: if the property is currently listed with a real estate agent, call the agent and the broker in charge. Tell them what you know and about the survey. If the agent has been around for any amount of time, this should send up big red flags to them. They don't want to be involved in knowingly selling a property with a property dispute or with an encroachment.

Keep records of all communications including conversations, phone calls and emails. Take notes of the conversations and calls, take pictures, do whatever to establish this record.

Finally, for those reading this post--this is exactly why one should minimally have a surveyor locate existing stakes before buying.

As @rrah said, the utility lines are likely not an issue. All my utility lines run through my neighbor’s property.

Now, as your neighbor is selling, is the perfect time to handle this, but it will be easier if you see an attorney.

Your attorney will likely send a demand letter with a short timeline, that threatens a suit and lis pendens.

Something like: We intend to file suit snd corresponding lis pendens if the structure is not relocated by May 15th.

Once filed, a lis pendens will block the sale of the home until the suit is finished. Honestly, even adverse possession doesn’t matter, he would still have to win in court, which can take years.

What was the result of the survey done when you bought the house? You may have to take him to court to get him to move his shed.

You are over your head in this. You need an attorney who can objectively look at the situation. Asking all of us is pointless. “Opinion” means nothing; legal advice is needed to explain the law and the legal solutions.

I wouldn’t be quite so harsh 👆 as that, but I agree. Since you’ve lived there two years and have done nothing so far, you need assistance from a professional. An in-person professional, not random people on the internet.

You had your property surveyed, it's permanently marked and certified, correct? Set the neighbor straight on the facts and tell him to move the shed and stay off your property nicely, and I think you already tried this approach. I've had the same situations in the past and lawful action is your next step so use the laws and police to get your point across.

Mark out the property line with turf paint and tell him it's your land, and when he disputes it tell him to pay for another survey to prove otherwise, and until then you will call the police every time he trespasses, and do it. Use a surveillance camera to document the trespassing and put out planters, small fences, or anything which will irritate him on the property in dispute. He will trespass to move, take or destroy the items and you want it on camera. When you do call the police again for stealing or destruction of personal property it may piss him off and he may hit you good! Criminal Assault charges, file a civil Assault lawsuit for kicks and file for a restraining order with a 1000' buffer, and if approved he's no longer your neighbor.

Send him a certified letter ordering him to remove the shed from your property or you will dispose the part of the shed on your property with a chain saw. Do not let him try to set even one post for a fence, call the police because you have a certified survey and he has NOTHING!! He sets a post, you pull it and cut it up, sell it, or use it because it's yours, and call the police for littering. DO NOT be a passive victim and go on the offensive.

If the new or old surveyor marker is permanently marked or tagged with the certificate number of the land surveyor and your neighbor pulls it out this is a misdemeanor, call the police, and file a lawsuit to pay to have it surveyed over. And removing those little utility flag markers is illegal in many states, check your state law and if it is call the police. It's a big NO NO and dangerous if you dig in the wrong place after your jerk neighbor pulled them out.

Who knows, maybe I'll see you on the ID channel's fear thy neighbor series in the future.

Absolutely no reason to go napalm on the neighbor.😳. I’d give him a copy of the survey and put up a fence for now so that the line is clearly marked. If you are going to plant something for privacy along the property line, be very aware of how big and wide the plants will get. Your neighbor can cut any branches that hang over the property line, which may make a privacy hedge unattractive if it’s half hacked away.

My brother and his wife are going thru this now. She has owned the property for 50 years. They wanted to put up a fence along the back property line so they got a survey.

Turns out the owner of the house behind them (a rental) had built a carport years ago, then had it enclosed, then had cement work done. She approached them and said she was willing to sell them this strip of land. They said give us a number. She had a realtor come over and give her an estimate, she checked with the city assessor also. When she sent them the price they stopped keeping contact with her. she then lawyered up. If she sells them the property she figures she will be paying out that amount to the lawyer, but she will no longer be paying taxes on that bit of property. It's a no win situation for her, but she just wants it done properly and legally.

Lawyer up!

“I’d like him to stop mowing that lawn and move his shed to the appropriate distance (2 foot off the property line). I’m sure his in laws gave him the OK when they lived here but it’s not ok with me.”

To start, a question and an observation.

Why do you want him to stop mowing the lawn and move the shed? Are you planning on doing something with that property, such as fencing it? Is his mowing job inferior? Moreover, I strongly suspect he is going to stop mowing the lawn when he moves out.

The utility thing is not an issue, my neighbor maintains the lawn over all my utilities, so why do you need it back?

Because your neighbor is moving it is likely a great time to strong arm your neighbor into resolving this in your favor by blocking the sale until it is resolved.

However, were the neighbor not moving I would not be so fast to lawyer up and get hostile. I would attempt to get your neighbor to recognize your claim with a registered letter first.

E.g. Hey neighbor, My recent survey discovered your shed is on my property by a couple of feet. While I don’t want you to have to move your existing shed, I would like that property back when/if you construct a new shed. As such, I have drafted a formal easement that is attached. If you don’t mind signing it, we can get on with being great neighbors.

You can likely DIY an easement with a little research, just make sure it is revocable with 30 days notice.

This may not be an open and shut case. In most states the shed would be evidence of adverse possession but not necessarily the start of it. If he had exclusive use and maintained the property for ten years before constructing the shed, then that is likely when the clock started. Since the previous owners of your home are his in-laws, there is no way I would want to send this to attorneys if they bought the house in 2002 or earlier.

Moreover, in many states the shed being on your property would be considered constructive notice of an easement. So, I would strongly encourage friendly ways, with little cost to the neighbor, to document your ownership if your neighbor decides not to sell the home.

It is likely that your neighbor is removing flags from, what he believes is his yard, to maintain it. Let’s not get so carried away with the villain colored crayon. I seriously doubt the police are going to do anything. In my area they would tell me to fill out a criminal complaint, which would waste my time filling out a complaint that the prosecutor is unlikely to ever do anything with.

I was advised in Ohio there is no prescriptive easement in a case like this. It’s not a permanent shed. It’s one dropped in place with a skid steer. Zoning and attorney told me to speak first. If not satisfactory result comes from that, we result to letters.

Also zoning told me everyone has utilities buried on own land. So it’s important to retain this piece of property to avoid future issues. So it’s not a matter of “what are you planning to do with this land”.

Also, the ordinance is 10 feet from the property line. My zoning office also stated permits are required to place a non permanent or permanent structure. They told me they view this type of shed the same as a boat. If it’s able to be moved, it needs to be moved. My attorney advised me there is no case on his side regardless of what his in laws said or did. The metal pins in the ground mark the boundary and there’s no contesting that.

@HU-196874496 said, zoning told me everyone has utilities buried on own land. So it’s important to retain this piece of property to avoid future issues. So it’s not a matter of “what are you planning to do with this land”.

Again, what does that have to do with mowing and a shed that is on your property? Zoning did not tell you that you need to have your neighbor move his shed, if they feel the neighbor needs to move the shed, then they should issue a citation and require it being done.

All you need to retain the piece of property is recognition from the neighbor that it is your property. That is all. Adverse possession requires hostile use, if you give permission for your neighbor to use the property then he can't adversely possess it. You don't have to have him move the shed, or stop mowing the yard if he recognizes you are giving him permission to use your property.

In my experience the easiest way to get a neighbor to recognize a piece of property as yours, is to lower the cost of him doing so. Moving the shed has a cost, losing the use of that land may have a cost (depending if and how he is using it), and those things might be worth your neighbor fighting for. So, were this me and I didn't have plans for the land, I would approach the neighbor and say, "I am not asking you to change the way you use the land, I am fine with things as they are now. I am not asking you to move the shed because I really don't care, but I do want to maintain clear ownership of my utility lines. So I am hoping you will sign an agreement that says I am letting you use my property without conveying any ownership interest."

Hopefully he recognizes there is no real cost to signing that and just does so. I wouldn't start a fight with a neighbor if there was any way to avoid it. There is only the loser and the bigger loser in these fights. If your neighbor is really selling the property that might be a great time to start a fight, but if the property doesn't sell, you are going to be living next to someone who may try to find a way to blame you for it.

You do you... but I would go out of my way to avoid a fight with a neighbor.

No. If you don’t retain your boundaries in Ohio, someone could claim your property by adverse possession after 21 years.

Also, zoning told me it’s not advisable to allow this to occur if you ever want to sell your home. It turns into red tape.

The total land area my neighbor is claiming is 10’ by 550’. That’s 5,500 square foot of area.

“No. If you don’t retain your boundaries in Ohio, someone could claim your property by adverse possession after 21 years.”

You are misunderstanding adverse possession. Even in Ohio the possession must be hostile. If they acknowlwdge the use is with permission, then it is not hostile. Without the hostility requirement lessors would own the lessee’s property after 21 years. I assure you that is not the case in Ohio. Since you have an attorney please ask them to clarify this for you.

”Also, zoning told me it’s not advisable to allow this to occur if you ever want to sell your home. It turns into red tape.”

Again, as I advised earlier... If you have your attorney write an easement that is revocable with 30 days notice, then there is no red tape. I have written many of these to avoid this very type of confrontation.

With all due respect. I wouldn’t trust the zoning office for legal advice and conflict resolution even on property disputes. They have zero skin in this fight. What do they care if you and your neighbor start feuding.

It is hostile cause I’m telling them to not be on my property.

What do I know… I just went law school to waste time.

I am trying to keep you out of court but you are only reading what you want to. The reason that I advised you grant permission is to defeat any adverse possession claim. A few months from now you can demand the shed be moved and he will not have a claim of adverse possession because he already acknowledged your ownership.

Property line disputes are always ugly and costly. His best defense is to ignore you until you spend thousands of dollars to sue, and were he my client, I would advise him to clean out the shed and ignore you. Time settles most legal disputes because attorney fees do a great job of adjusting priorities.

Once you sue, he may acquiesce or he may assert a claim. To know the strength of your case we really need to know about the owners prior to his in-laws.

I wish you the best.

He didn’t have a shed or do anything like plant near that property. Because prior to his in-laws living here, the people who developed and built the entire street lived here. I’m sure they knew all boundaries etc.
He’s playing me for a fool by creating his own stakes and telling me who owns what. When I got my survey, the truth came out. And there’s no way to not acknowledge my legal possession of the property in question cause the boundary pins are exposed.

Also, I want to put a fence down this line to mark the line. His shed is in the way. If you were my attorney, I’d fire you.

With all due respect, I am not going to debate you about your property or your money. Do whatever you want. Set your money on fire for all I care. However, I will eat my shorts when those property pins get up and physically move your neighbor's shed.

ETA: Also, I want to put a fence down this line to mark the line. His shed is in the way. If you were my attorney, I’d fire you.

Then why didn't you just respond to this when I asked you? If you want advice to be useful we need useful information. I literally asked, "Are you planning on doing something with that property, such as fencing it?" and you didn't indicate that you were until later. Again, I wish you all the success that you so richly deserve in your endeavor. I suspect you will find the experience enlightening.

Well in all due respect, my township said they’ll fine for every day over 30 days after the date marked in a letter. So before I have to pay any fees in legal costs, I mean, there’s fines going into effect. So I’m not sure how waiting is his best defense

Well in all due respect, my township said they’ll fine for every day over 30 days after the date marked in a letter.

LOL... You are just making that up. Nobody would ask a question about confronting a neighbor and not include that the city was fining them for the problem. I don't believe for a second that you wouldn't have included that information in the OP or a follow up the moment that you found out. Because again... my advice would be different given that information.

It would be do nothing and let the city do it for you. So again, I don't buy it.

I am sure that you are going to have some other piece of information in a moment that explains away some other objection. It is ridiculous and transparently false.

ETA: I am going to unsubscribe because seriously... this is beyond absolutely stupid.

I highly doubt you’re a lawyer.

Park a car, boat or RV on your property he is trying to mow after you put up a security camera. If he does About a $1000 worth of damage it's a felony, cheaper than hiring an attorney who wants to bleed you dry over years.

This is fascinating reading. I had a property line dispute once at a rental property I owned, Interestingly, the neighbor got code enforcement to fine me for a vine in a wooded area on “my property” that was destroying his fence, without ever once asking me kindly to remove it. I paid someone to remove the vine promptly in order to be a good neighbor, but he wanted me to replace his fence. So, I went out to the property and found the original stakes, showing that all the vines were on his property all along. My property line was 10 ft from his fence. A fact that was confirmed by a quick search of the original plat. All this to say, code enforcement was WRONG to fine me, they just listened to the loudest neighbor. My lawyer sent a letter asking the gentleman to cease and desist from harassing me, along with this proof. I never asked him to repay me for the work I had done. It never came up again. He wasn’t a bad man, just was wrong about what was his property.

All this to say, the advice from bry to try to preserve neighborly relations while working out a suitable arrangement is wise. Have you ACTUALLY spoken to him in person? Showed him the stakes, asked him not to pull up the flags, told him you want a fence and the shed is an issue? For that matter, your fence usually cannot be directly on your property line, so after accounting for setbacks and easements, is the shed even preventing your fence? A bad neighbor can make your life hell, but this doesn’t sound like a bad neighbor situation. I don’t understand asking here for advice if you already have a survey, have hired a lawyer and already have talked to your local municipality who is taking action. Nothing is going to happen quick. Even if the structure is movable as you say, it doesn’t mean it won’t require hired labor, etc which may be a hardship to him—at the very least, time to arrange. It sounds like you are just mad about the principle of the man being in your yard. But my thoughts are: Why is he doing the mowing? Are you not maintaining the yard there? Have you considered thanking him for working to maintain the property and assured him you will do so from here on out?

The utilities are a moot point. It is not uncommon for utility boxes and lines for several properties to originate on one property. Wherever they are is an easement. It some areas you may need a approval from the utility company to place a fence that crosses an easement. Which is why you should just follow the details of advice from a lawyer in your area that specializes in this matter and not people on the internet. You may have several options available to you, and you can choose how you see fit to proceed. Just know if you go straight to nuclear you will have severed any hopes of a good relationship in the future. You just need to be willing to accept the consequences

I believe the OP has simply been trying to "stir the pot" - aka "trolling."

Like bry911, I'm going to unsubscribe or similar.

I am in Ohio and won't hijack this thread with my own property line stories, but trust me you need to lawyer up.

The simple solution is to tell your neighbor that you want to put up a fence. You have had a legal survey conducted that indicates the shed is encroaching. You would like for him to move the shed. Nicely, and with a little regret, tell him that your attorney is going to be sending him a certified letter of notice formally stating the situation and asking for the shed to be moved. It's just good manners to warn the neighbor in advance of the letter. You tell him that you do not want hard feelings, but this is what your attorney has advised you as the appropriate course of action. You stay the good guy, make the lawyer the bad guy. He won't care. Ask your attorney to include a copy of the filed, updated legal survey in the letter to the neighbor. Act as if none of this other stuff about utilities and in-laws has ever happened. You want a fence. This is how you go about getting it.

If he does nothing, you have stopped the adverse possession clock by this legal notice. If he tries to sell the house, wait until it's listed and call the listing agent. Tell them who you are and let them know that there is a dispute over the property line based on your recent survey and what it involves. They will want to be certain that the potential new owner gets their own updated survey prior to closing.

Start work on the fence to show you're serious